High definition editing from the trenches...

Shane Ross is a broadcast television editor who works with HD. This is the place he shares his experiences editing high definition television shows and lets you know about the good things and the bad, hoping you can learn from his mistakes and successes. Shane is also available for hire as a consultant. comeback@mac.com

Monday, October 15, 2007

ARCHIVING SOLUTIONS FOR P2

DevilDodo on the Creative Cow has done some research on this topic:

"After looking into LTO tapes, Hard drives, DVDs and Blu-ray there seems to be no clear winner. Here's how it breaks down (all prices in NZ dollars):

LTO3:
- Most expensive setup cost (the cost of the drive itself) at around $2000. In terms of tapes, it works out to about $0.19 /GB
- Large storage space (200GB or 400GB compressed) on the one I looked at.
- Approx. 30+ year lifetime.
- Write speed is quite slow when compared to DVD. Read speed is quite slow (due to the fact it has to do it sequentially. IE it's not random access).

HDD:
- Relatively cheap, around $0.48 /GB with no setup costs.
- Storage space varies, but significantly larger than DVD or Blu-ray.
- Unreliable. 3-5 year lifetime.
- Harder to store.
- Very fast write speed, random access.

DVD+R:
- Cheapest of all options at $0.18 /GB.
- Comparatively very small storage space.
- Fast write speed compared to Blu-ray and LTO.
- 10-30 year lifetime.
- Less reliable. Prone to damage.

Blu-ray:
- Most expensive at $1.41 /GB. Setup cost of around $1200 for burner.
- 50GB at dual layer. A lot larger than DVD, but still small when compared to LTO or HDD.
- Slow write speed (around an hour per 25GB depending on burner).
- Apparently very robust. 100+ year lifetime.

Take from that what you will. This information was taken from various places on the net, so is by no means definitive.

A few thoughts of my own: To me, Blu-ray seems like a very viable solution. The 100+ year lifetime may sound a bit ridiculous, but I've spoken to several people who have said that they are incredibly robust and that really the only way to destroy the information is to physically snap the disc.

Of course, a huge advantage to the Blu-ray solution for those of us in the video profession is that buying the bruner gives you the ability to master high def Blu-ray discs (with the right software, of course). Which is a huge plus, espcially if working with the HVX.

And prices are coming down on the burners fast. I compiled this information only a couple of months ago, but recently I've seen a burner for $800 that claims to write 25GB in 25 minutes!

My research into HDD storage has been widely varied. Ultimately I've concluded that it is complete luck as to when or whether you HDD will crash on you. I've obviously had a lot of bad luck - in the year we've been in business we've lost a total of six external drives. Completely randomly. Thus, I personally have vowed to never use them again as a storage system.

At the moment we've resorted to using DVDs to archive until we make a decision. It's been working fine so far... Though it is a pain having to manually split the 16GB folders into 4GB segments... "



Now I have been leaning towards Blu-Ray myself...but...how long will they last given the HD DVD war that is going on? You'll have to make sure that you have a Blu-Ray READER that is compatible for all that time IF the other format wins out. Then again you also need to hold onto your LTO tape drive as well, and the computer that it can connect to (say you have an OLD one that has a SCSI interface). Either way...and even with drives (which are still my current TEMPORARY solution) you need to make sure you constantly update the drive itself so that it can connect to a computer, or hold onto a computer it can connect to...which shouldn't be too tough.

Decisions...decisions...

Right now I only have two shows worth of P2 files to back up, so Blu-Ray isn't cost effective. But if I went to series...hmmmm.

Thoughts? What are others considering? I'd like LTO, but man...$2000 for a drive. I can get a Blu-Ray burner for $600...SINGLE layer. Ahh, the Achilles Heel of the tapeless workflow...archiving.

12 comments:

Matt Gottshalk said...

I am going the (even MORE) expensive route and getting the Quantum DLT600a. It is MXF aware, GigE, and faster than just an LTO drive.

Elliot Lee said...

The original article is factually incorrect...

LTO-3 has a capacity of 400G/800G. Since only uncompressed capacity matters for video, we're looking at 400G tapes for under $40 each, which is less than $0.10/GB.

If you look at LTO-2 tape, then the capacity figures given are correct, but the up-front cost is a lot less (I got my LTO-2 drive for $400 on ebay) and tapes are around $30 each (for a cost of $0.15/GB).

Either way, LTO wins.

Elliot Lee said...

Oh yea, and I just looked at transfer speeds as well. LTO-3 does 80MB/s. LTO-2 does 40MB/s. A 16x DVD recorder would be doing 22MB/s. So the original "researcher" guy is basically full of it...

Shane Ross said...

SO...this is what I get for not doing my OWN friggin research.

OK...looking at LTO drives if we hit series. Heck, even if I get the PILOT, I still have the pilot to back up, then the last TWO History shows...might be worth it...if I can get it into the Pilot budget.

Thanks Elliot.

Mat said...

I'm now no longer happy that the price has been left in NZ dollars.

Andy said...

>Ahh, the Achilles Heel of the tapeless workflow...archiving.

not so Shane ... tis the Achilles Heel of P2 based tapeless workflow. those working in the XDCAM disc format can keep or archive to the same discs they shoot

Shane Ross said...

OK Andy...but the XDCAM produces a DISK...a physical thing you can archive on a shelf. I consider that a "tape," even though it really is a disk. P2 and XDAM EX and even RED are all tapeless, and the media the record on are meant to be used again and again, the footage to be offloaded and archived in another fashion.

That is the issue.

Andy said...

ok Shane, if you'd pointed out that archiving to XDCAM required a huge investment in conform time i'd have said it was a fair cop ... or pointed out that at a $1/GB it was significantly more expensive than the other options ... but you're saying XDCAM isn't even tapeless now? and further, you're sugesting that only formats designed not to be archived to their recording medium are allowed entry to that club, and so to be classed as tapeless?? ... i'm not even going to go there mate!

Shane Ross said...

Sorry...don't know what I was saying. BUSY over here with trying to finish one show (still on that darn show), gearing up for two others, researching stuff, then family.

I was speaking from my ass. Dunno what I was thinking.

Andy said...

dude, we should start an ass talking club! there'd be loads of members and I could be president :)

the post girl in dc said...

Our house just went over to HD (p2) and we've been trying to figure out the best way to archive. One of the companies we room with has gone DLT (and posted about it here amusingly enough). For us, Blu-Ray made the most sense since we archive a TON of stuff, not just P2 media, and the amount of DVDs we use just to put basic stuff off to disc is insane (Photoshop, AFX, 3D, DVDs, etc). OWC is selling an external drive for about $600 and with single layer discs going for about $13 a pop, add in a Toast 8 upgrade for $60, it seemed like a deal to us. I burned about 20GB of material in 40 minutes, but verification does take a little longer. The burn time was alot shorter than I expected. I also dig that the drive is external because depending on what day it is, what's our usual offload and archive machine can be quite busy.

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